Y'know I have been a pretty active member of the Joe online community since 2001 when the new comic hit the stands and I have seen the community ebb and flow over those years.

Recently though (specifically since the movie has been announced) it just seems like this all out *****. People complaining about the toys (not totally but some pretty vocal ones), the comics, the movie, the con, the Hasbro Q&A, and the list goes on.

So, here is my thing, for me GI Joe comics is a hobby. It is something I do to pass the time. I invest a little money, a little time, and a little energy into something I enjoy. If at any point I didn't enjoy it anymore, or I found something that I was more interested in then I would call it a day and move on. That seems beyond the abilities of some of the GI Joe fans these days.

GI Joe comics are a licensed product that is developed for a toy company. I get that. I also understand that they have some pretty scrict editorial mandates (which seems to have gotten stricter since the movie was announced), but at the end of the day I enjoy the story and I enjoy seeing where the story leads me.

Here are some universal truths that I think we really should come to grips with (these are not all inclusive, but after over 20 years of reading GI Joe books I think I can do this)

1.) GI Joe is never going to completely defeat Cobra.
- When GI Joe was re-introduced in 1982, Cobra was the main villian. Every Hero needs a villian and GI Joe has Cobra. Cobra will never be completely eliminated. Cobra Commander will always escape at the end of the day "to fight another day" he will rebuild his army and come up with another plot.

2.) Cobra is never going to win.
- Just like the westerns of old, the bad guys never win. Cobra may get our heroes on the ropes, but GI Joe will never be defeated and Cobra will never "win the day".

3.) Cobra Commander, Storm Shadow, Duke and Snake-Eyes will never die....or stay dead.
- I think that is pretty self-explanatory.

Once you wrap your mind around those three things I think the Joe comics are a lot of fun. Not because I ask "I wonder if someone is going to die?" but because I ask "How are Joes going to pull this out?" "Where did CC screw up in his plans so GI Joe can take him down again?". When I go into the books asking those questions I have a good time.

Ok...enough pondering for today. I think this thread went in many different directions.

But at the end ask yourself, "Why is GI Joe a hobby of mine?" and "Do I still enjoy the hobby enough to invest money, time and effort into it?"

_________________

I'm with you 100%. It's just disheartening to hear the same junk, time and again. I have a keyboard and an internet connection so a) my opinion is valid, b) if it's later proven totally wrong, I can ignore what I said, claim what I said supports the new information, or claim the more reliable information is bulls--t, and c) I don't even have to identify it as my opinion if I don't want to -- I can just say it as if it were true.

Somewhere along the way, people started confusing "Everyone is entitled to an opinion" with "Every opinion is valid". And that's just sad.

Over here in the Netherlands there was a sudden turnaround in the field of 'discussing' things a couple of years ago... The way it is now, everyone feels the need to express their opinion but they believe they don't have to back up their opinions with reasoning . If you disagree with their opinions they immediately claim you are 'demonizing' them and obstructing their right to free speech.

As far as G.I. Joe comics go... For me it is and always has been entertainment. Sure, there are parts of the comic or even whole issues that I don't like - I just don't read those again.

Grognard.

It's a French word, it means 'grumbler'.
The specific context comes from Napoleon. He used to call he old soldiers grognards, the ones who had been around long enough to know how things should be done, but lacked the rank to do anything about it, because of the way they would always complain.

The word has been used in the context of old school gamers(by which I mean table top miniatures and roleplaying games) but migrated to other fandoms.
Super hero comics, Star Wars, Dungeons & Dragons all have their share of grognards. And so does GI Joe.

In a way, I'm proud. Not because I have to deal with grognards, but because Joe has withstood the test of time to manage to get to the grognard stage.

It didn't happen to Star Wars until the 90's with the release of the special editions.
It happened to D&D when they released the 2nd edition in the lat e80's.

It is basically inevitable. When people have grown up with something its importance to them and their own perceived importance to the franchise are often unavoidable. Avoiding it takes a level of distraction from the fandom, such as work, family, the opposite sex, and competing interests.

Sadly there is little to be done about it except take up a collection to have assassins track them down by ip address and dispatch them to the the great big P.X. in the Sky.

To be honest, when I clicked on the link I expected fire and brimstone, striking down unbelievers with lighting bolts from Mount Olympus, rain of fire from the sky kinda stuff. But Phil surprised me with his moderate tone and matter of fact way.
Well done, lead by example.

_________________
Sic vis pacem, para bellum
--
The core of the GI Joe fantasy is loyalty. The fantasy isn't about shooting at Cobra,
the fantasy is about 'If I get left behind, Snake Eyes will come and get me.'
-Larry Hama, CHUD Interview

Do they accept PayPal?

I'll echo your comments re. Phil. You don't get other people to start acting like adults by not acting like an adult.

Happy holidays, everyone.

Yes, and they will never retire either in favor of new recruits!
at least not permanently

Here!Here!, Phil. I think it's ok to say what you liked and disliked in an issue, or a cartoon episode, or about a particular toy (it's called reviewing material, and it's helpful to other readers, viewers and collectors), but some fans are taking it to another level, where they throw all their venom at DDP or Hasbro or whoever they're unhappy with. I say take a pill. Or get another hobby, if you think it's so bad!

_________________
䷾ scryptic
----------
"The only way to bear the snakes is to become one." - Cobra Commander, Cobra Reborn

Hey, could you add 'Hasblow' to the filtered list? I think it would help as the movie draws near....

_________________
Sic vis pacem, para bellum
--
The core of the GI Joe fantasy is loyalty. The fantasy isn't about shooting at Cobra,
the fantasy is about 'If I get left behind, Snake Eyes will come and get me.'
-Larry Hama, CHUD Interview

All great points. How about posting them at the top of every thread. Just kidding.

_________________
GI Joe comic fan since 1982

The YO Joe Comic Book Section
&
The YO Joe International Comic Book Section

I'm a little late responding here, but I'm with you Phil.

I just finished issues #29 and #30 back to back, and I don't know about everyone else, but I think the current story is one of the best Joe comic stories we've ever seen, not just one of the best of DDP's series. There are some things about the old days that part of me wishes would never change, but that's just the way things are. I also think it will be a shame if DDP loses the license.

In the realm of action figures, how can anyone complain about the current line of 25th anniversary figures? They're nearly perfect. And the apparent death of Sigma 6 is, I think, a good thing as well. I hope they end up continuing the newer Sigma-sized figures that are more based in the ARAH world.

Some things I've heard about this movie do concern me a bit, but I'm willing to stay hopeful and see where it goes. We've all ready heard some newer details that indicate the older not-really-G.I. Joe storyline that was being considered has been scrapped, and a more fan-friendly script may emerge. I'm not gonna get upset about it and ruin all my fun now, though!

But Phil, these days all types of fandom -- comic books, Star Wars, etc -- have angry, can't-please-them "fans" who feel the need to be bitter and pissy about anything involving their favorite series that they themselves did not envision in their heads. There's an interesting quote from George Lucas that just came out in a Vanity Fair article on the new Indiana Jones movie. While I think Lucas definitely has trouble relating to Star Wars fans these days, he says that there are fans who will hate anything you do that doesn't exactly match their own vision. There's a big part of the "geek community" that simply act like the Comic Book Guy on The Simpsons and won't be pleased unless they get to take over and write G.I. Joe or Superman or Star Wars or Star Trek or Spider-Man... etc, etc.

Calm down everyone. It's all just supposed to be fun. Take it too seriously, and you won't have any. And this is coming from someone who takes Joe as seriously as anybody!

JMM

_________________

I just bought the 4th TPB and man I can say this was a great great TPB and with this whole WWIII thing going on, I agree that DDP has been putting out some of the very very best joe stories lately. It would be a real Shame if they lost it, but Im fearing that the license has gone to someone else

_________________

GI JOE EXTREME, ACTION FORCE, ACTION MAN forums :
http://www.bloodforthebaron.com/phpBB2/index.php

Phil and jmmcfadd, you have both said pretty much exactly what I have felt and wish others would come to realize. I could repost it all in my own not so well way, but there's not much need to when you have both said it so well to begin with. I just want to lend my voice of support on your thoughts and words.

_________________
http://www.hardyboyscasefiles.com/

I have to agree, there is a lot of griping that goes on at the various websites. But I do have to say, I don't think there's anything wrong with voicing complaints... as long as they're constructive or done in a manner that is respectable.

For example, I've complained about the art on the comic in the past. I voice my opinion, explain why I dislike it, and I try not to beat a dead horse. Maybe not always successfully, but I don't think I whine and complain excessively and without reason. I also try and hilite some positives at the same time. If it really was all bad, as Phil said, I might as well quit.

There's also the reason behind complaining. Most people seem to complain to hear themselves talk. I criticize from time to time because I believe things can be done better. For example, I complained about the Baroness action figure because if they ever make another one, maybe they can improve on it.

Overall I do agree though, there is a lot of whining that goes on and it does get old. For the most part I find this board to be a nice break from that (kiss up time! ), but I've learned to ignore a lot of the BS. It's the only way I can handle reading message boards.

And Joe fans should be in heaven right now. The comic really is at a high and the figures have really never looked better and there's a movie looming in the future. And Hasbro has been listening to the fans judging by the various improvements on the figures and the fact they've got Hama coming back to write new comics. Good times indeed!!

Err... Was Sigma 6 a failure? As silly and kiddy campy the cartoon was, I thought it did refresh G.I. Joe for a while. It probably needed a better take on the stories.

I keep thinking that G.I. Joe needs a new jumping on point even if it has to be an all-new continuity. There was an attempt or two but we keep going back to RAH. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but Transformers keeps beating up on G.I. Joe every time.

_________________

If comics were cheaper, then I personally feel that the complaining wouldn't be so high. Since the G.I. Joe comics are either $3.50 or $5.50 (depending on the page count, or the issue itself), and if the reader isn't satisfied in what they read...they feel as if they were ripped off.

The movie complaining is just stupid since it isn't even DONE yet!

The figures...don't know about that. I'm only complaining since my lame *** stores where I live NEVER have them! I don't feel like ordering online, and since I'm SO far behind now...I'll never start buying them.

It is a bit sad that the Joe universe is set for Cobra to fail all the time. Just imagine all the cool stories (not to mention NEW) about Cobra controlling the world and G.I. Joe having to act like Resistance fighters...slowly trying to take back the world one piece at a time.

I agree with you Phil 100%. I left GIJoe online because i cant stand the whiny brats. I learned how to ignore them now.

_________________

http://zero-optix.deviantart.com/gallery/